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Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 23:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:the 'carebear dollar' myth is exactly that, a 'simple and fundamental fact' proven time and again. Then why has the game consistently moved towards safer and easier?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 23:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:Read the first post, got disinterested. Boring topic about a boring subject. The end. Your a real mover and a shaker huh?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 23:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:Then why has the game consistently moved towards safer and easier? Because myths hold great power over the human mind. And carebears are the whiniest motherfuckers on the planet.
I'm not so sure about that. People play MMO's to feel like heroes, tycoons of industry and development, pirates or great warriors. These things are not possible for most people in RL.
The opposition to miner ganking that is here in this thread, or the "make clones cheaper" crowd isn't the old argument about "protect me from the awful mean PKers" It is different.
These voices aren't asking for safety, they are asking to not have to think in order to play Eve. And they are getting just that.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 02:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:
Unless you are in wide sections of null sec, then you are pretty much safe as can be to farm away at the risk free isk making activities. They can even do that AFK which allows for more time to head to the forums and blame High Sec, risk averse, carebears for the downfall of Eve online and allow alts to start up ganking corps and run for CSM.
Amazing really.
I live in losec and I have to log out to come to the forums. Neither James nor the Goons put forth the argument that "Eve is dying."
Sariah Kion wrote: This is where most of you fall off the logic train.
CCP is not making decisions based off of "carebears crying in high sec" they base them of market data,polling, internal demographics all which point them in a development direction that helps them maintain and grow their revenue streams as a business.
Your assumption here is that CCP is after growth is not proven, they are not a public company and answer to only themselves. And in any case having more data doesn't guarantee that a company will make the "correct" decisions. History is full of companies and people who had all the answers and still didn't achieve their objectives.
The whole case of CCP is more of a distraction to the argument taking place here. They will do what they feel like doing. The question raised by James is "How can we make Eve a better game." This is subjective, however games have existed for a very long time, what are some of the qualities of the great ones?
They require thought, they are often puzzles, there is frequently risk in the form of wagering either money or status, they have an interface that draws the players into the game. Games like chess, go and poker have stood the test of time because of these elements.
In recent years Eve has moved away from being a game towards being a spectator sport. This may well be good for revenue, it is however not good for the game.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 02:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote: Your assumption here is that CCP is after growth is not proven
Its really hard to move past this statement and then take you seriously. Sorry, no offense meant. None taken. You based an argument on unproven suposition, something that I felt compelled to point out.
In any case it is not relevant to the discussion at hand. This is not about CCP, it is about ourselves.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 03:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good games all have a sense of accomplishment, some risk, puzzles to figure out and the chance to do so in direct competition with other players. Perhaps many of the people who subscribe to Eve are after only entertainment and not a game. But i don't think so.
And if it is true that the people in Eve want a game and not spectator sport then perhaps the lowest common denominator of false achievement and pretty graphics is not the best way to go for anyone. Even if it is the clearest, safest, most agreeable direction.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 03:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote:
If they REALLY cared about the game they would be pushing for sweeping changes to null and sov....but that would really screw with their risk free income,
That is a good point. Null is a mess, way too powerful in terms of being removed from other players. Null could do with more empire raiders running around that they have to physically address and not just reroute with 20 jumps. Also the ISK faucets out there create local inflation that is part of the reason 95% of goods are imported from highsec. Lower the ISK created there and equalize access to industry slots.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
128
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 03:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sariah Kion wrote: Then chase your accomplishment. Nothing is stopping you. Why do you get to dictate what is game and just entertainment to others? Maybe scanning down grav sites is personally rewarding, maybe beating some rivals in the station trading game is personally rewarding?
This is mostly an argument of folks looking through very narrow lenses at the situation. Whether that is intentional to manipulate the meta game in their favor or simply because some cant or wont see things through a broader views.
I'm not trying to sell a certain idea or way of gaming, I just think that a lot of these arguments get side tracked away from the real discussion; either into the realm of "eve is dying omg" or "CCP did x,y, And Z!" When we should be talking about what we all like about games and Eve in particular. Once that common ground is defined then CCP can build Eve around it.
So when I say games are puzzles and challenging and competitive; that's just my opinion, but it is shared by many others. What is a game to you?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
129
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 13:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
The thing about dismissing James as nothing more than a Goon plot is that his stated objectives work as hard against the Goons as they do against highsec bears. The Code is currently applied to highsec for RP and cohesion, but the impetus behind the Code will be just as disrupting to operations in null when it is applied there. And in point of that fact many highsec bears actually seem to have little problem with the foundations of the Code, only about who it is currently applied to.
Crumplecorn wrote:With regard to the carebear playstyle, if you mean putting it back to the level it was at in the past (and then hopefully moving focus on to fixing lowsec/0.0), sure, why not? I wouldn't seriously advocate for the removal of highsec or something extreme like that because, as you say, EVE was always intended to have some level of carebearing. Sariah Kion wrote:some of these low and null sec types need to HTFU!!!! I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The mechanics of Eve currently prevent a lot of interaction; things like very powerful faction police on one side, and 20 jumps through very hostile space on the other. Arguments that GÇ£the FP have always been there, deal with it.GÇ¥ Or GÇ£We fought for out space our here, we earned peace and quiet.GÇ¥ While true, may not actually make for the most interesting scenarioGÇÖs.
Sariah Kion wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:.... I'd go as far as to say that a large number are null and lowsec mains, with the remainder being made up of highsec players, some are highsec gankers by nature, some are highsec miners who are having a laugh removing their competition from the field, while others like myself were bored with highsec and have already lived in wormholes, roamed through lowsec and annoyed the incumbents in null. .....
I dont disagree with much you just posted honestly. There is many rewarding things in game that cant be accomplished in high sec that is only available in low and null. I think there need to be work done to null and sov. I AM for changes like you suggest as long as they come with changes to sov and null that dislodge the "blue for days" mentality that was breed by greed and bad game mechanics.
Putting our in game differences aside there are some things that people in this thread seem to agree on:
-Meta-gaming is bad for the game as a whole, because it leads to advantage, not a good game system.
-Conversation has gotten to the point where it is difficult to separate Meta-gaming from actual conversation about what makes a great game.
-Most gamers play Eve for the interactive content, when options to interact with and to challenge other players are removed the game becomes less engaging, less Eve like.
If arguments and ideas are immediately dismissed based on the assumption that they are in fact meta-gaming then we as game players will never be able to explain to game developers what it is that we would like to see.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
129
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laura Valu wrote:So I should stop having BADWRONG fun. Got it. Everything should be PVP all the time forever and anything that takes away from that is KILLING EVE OMG. The weirdest part is, you guys don't seem to really want PVP. Not really. If you wanted actual fights, you would be out in null, or W-Space. What you want is to shoot at noobs in mining barges, using ships specifically designed to be expendable, and then chest beat about how you showed those wimpy carebears.
Despite the platform and rhetoric, the Code and the ideas behind it are not about dogfight PvP or destroying miners. They are about in game options to interact with other players. Over the years those options have narrowed, whether by in game mechanics or through emergent game play.
Much of that direction has been fueled by meta-gaming, the Code is an attempt to put the creation of more options for interaction in the game. Some of those options will lead to loss and destruction. But that is better than stagnation from the POV of James and co. and a lot of highsec bears to.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
129
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Nicely written, easy to see the comparisons swell. Had this been a blog people might not have bitched so much. I have to say I agree with what your saying, high sec is slowly changing for the worse but if they can balance income rewards for low sec all these problems will go away. Reduce belt numbers I'm high sec, reduce the number of high sec systems, move level 4s to new low sec areas along with manufacturing slots and make the high sec empires into high sec islands with risky areas to travel through between racial hubs. That way hi can be super safe but anyone wanting to make risk has to either TEAM UP and work together or take risks. Low sec thrives and eve wins
Highsec systems are already pretty crowded, forcing those players into more congested systems seems like it would be unpleasant. It might be nice to relax security in some of the lower highsec systems, do away with faction police in .5 and .6 maybe.
And on the other side; null is too isolated. It would be nice to have "no bubble" null areas. And more options for docking in null. That would allow people to work out there without sov, and the powers that "own" that territory would have to actively defend it, rather than just harvesting resources.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote: NPC null is a thing though, its jsut not widely promoted which is a shame, id like to see 4 islands of high, surrounded by low, followed by a border of NPC null and then proper null. That way people could progress a little smoother. Sorting out the income levels for all those bands of space would be tough but probably a little more clean cut.
I dont think a no bubles null is a good idea though, keep the bubles and teach people how to deal with them, plus if the amount of null entrances was increased dramatically it would be less of an issue
NPC null is one of the best parts of Eve imho. I really like both Providence and ORE country. And for very different reasons; Providence is like a little galactic village, and the Outer Ring is this wide open frontier. I'm not sold on the "banding" concept, I think it leads to isolation and disconnected game play.
We are seeing too much of that all ready in this debate over what Eve is or is not. In many cases people agree on concepts but fight because their game worlds are so different and seperated from one another. A little more overlap might help to get people on the same page while still maintaining the individual feel of different areas throughout New Eden.
Ultimately I would just like to see a bit more fluidity in the game, things have become very static with spreadsheets for many possible actions in Eve. A few more variables would be nice.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
133
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 02:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Vin King wrote:Only if you're spinning a noobship, though. Actually, claiming your first nubship requires undocking at least once. This is unacceptable for a PvE-only character and so you must confine yourself to pod spinning. This is entirely inadequate, Eve pilots deserve better PvE encounters than just pod spinning. I would like to propose an auto pod spin feature! one that is clearly labeled and easily understood. Perhaps the space bar. With red octagons throughout the hanger labeled "STOP" in languages and fonts clearly understandable by all player skill levels.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
135
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 02:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tesal wrote:Vin King wrote: Let it hereby be known by all that AFK pod spinning has been determined to be the only PVE activity in the game.
Yay!!! I'm a pvper. Welcome sister Tesal.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 15:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote: I am fighting to change Eve, just like James is, but I am fighting so it's more accessible to more people, rather than douche central like it is now.
And how exactly do you think Eve could be modified to prevent one segment of the player base from "bullying" another while still allowing for open interaction between players? I've read a few of your posts and I don't see what it is that you want. At first I thought you were a lowsec dweller, the last few posts have finally convinced me otherwise.
What is it that you want to see in Eve?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote: Easy. I want Eve to lure in all kinds of players. Casuals, hardcores, PVE, PVP, Carebears, everyone. A truly diverse New Eden.
.... But also don't go whining to CCP about people comfortable in highsec when the null dwellers have become as risk-averse as you perceive highseccers to be because you've blued everyone. That is what the New Order, and much of nullsec is guilty of, and they're just blaming highsec because we don't appreciate griefing and nonconsensual PVP.
Eve is truly diverse, it has all those kinds of players already.
The blue donut is a myth, it does not exist. Go to Dotlan and look over the kill stats. There are 2 huge powerblocks and a third that could tip the balance either way, and very many smaller sharks swimming and looking to get bigger. The leaders and members of these 2 huge power blocks do not all like one another, they compete and fight on a regular basis. It is a very precarious situation.
They are not blaming highsec, they are pursuing an in game motivation that meshes well with out of game ideals. You are not supposed to "appreciate" it. Your choice is to fight or loose resources. Eve is about overcoming and outsmarting other players, not about burning through fictional content to see who can do it the fastest. That is why Eve is a great game and lures all types of players, the endless challenge and interaction of competing with other players in a strange and mysterious world filled with hidden secrets that contain the seeds of success.
You still haven't stated clearly exactly what it is that you would like to see from CCP as far as future development. Don't leave it to the imaginations of those here, they will think the worst of you.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
139
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote: *ahem*
SANDBOX.
Meaning multiple styles of play, including solo ones.
Eve is a great game for solo players, I spend most of my time out of a fleet and don't often care to take advantage of corporate assets. There's a ton of stuff to do on your own, and currently people can't steal anything from your hangers so it is all safe when you log off.
Its true that solo players have trouble setting up POS's, but there has been a lot of talk about making that easier to do. And for no there is the ORCA option if you need a remote ship bay out in W-space or whatever.
The only changes that I would like to see are more ways in which to interact with one another. More career paths like the wandering ship mechanic proposed here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=196175&f=270&q=2623756
Or industrial espionage agent talked about here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195821&find=unread
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote: Indeed. And being forced to interact is something that needs to change.
No one in Eve is forced to interact. Players are forced to learn evasion tactics, and that option is currently very powerful. It is much easier for even a low skilled pilot to evade than it is for a high skilled pilot or pilots to catch him.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
141
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
^^^ yet more silly trolling.
Please stop.
You think he's a troll Josef? I'm starting to believe that myself. idk the question of Eve being a game for a wide variety of players is interesting. I think to bring more people in it would be good to have another mini-game or 2 and a few more career paths, and to make all career paths important and potential group roles. Or at least to have group roles that can be filled in fleet and corp by different play styles.
*edit: I guess CCP already has those things, great game that we have here. I hope it continues to ad options and resists taking any away.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
142
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote:The more users think I'm trolling, the more cemented my views of the forum portion of the playerbase becomes. I have to say the more you post the less I care what you think.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
142
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote:I will give the New Order this; Eve is quite imbalanced at the moment.
But they are going about rebalancing it the wrong way.
The nullsec players have dug themselves into this pit they're in, and they're blaming EVERYONE but themselves.
I want to go to null. I want to lay eyes and lasers upon that ever-elusive Mercoxit. And I know every time I go searching, I'm putting a round in the chamber and giving it a spin.
But that's NOT highsec's fault.
The null seccers don't actually ask for much, they want more access to indy slots is about the only thing I hear them ask for. They do hate change for the sake of change and players who have never really been out of highsec asking for game changes that will make it easier to get into null. But honestly null is not in a "hole" and they are not all blue to one another.
As for mining mercoxit; hell yeah, thats an awesome goal. Learn evasion, learn to mine in lowsec, contact the CVA or go exploring the outer ring and have at it. Go in with some other guys and buy an ORCA sneak it into null, and mine fill it up. That would be a blast.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard Imperium Directive
142
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 21:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lord Ovuld Feish wrote: Before I even consider moving anything to mine it, first I have to find it, which is proving a challenge.
I was under the impression that no matter where you are; null, WH, wherever, Merc has to be scanned down, yes?
Oh I have no idea. So hop in a covops and go find some. Have you looked on the Evelopedia aout it?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Perkone Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 11:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:CCP will always support highsec botters who pretend to be people with a lot of accounts mining in highsec because it makes their game appear populated. This has not been my experience: The ISD's actively discourage the practice when it comes up on help chat, bot reporting petitions are handled very quickly, and CCP hired CCP Sreegs. I think their commitment to eradication actual botters is well documented.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 04:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ustrello wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:Sarador Adonaj wrote:Funny how all of what James does seems to go away from "Carebear'ing without risk" towards "PvP'ing without risk". I wish people would make up their mind. Is Suicide Ganking miners PVP or not PVP? That is the question. They are killing a player so yeah pvp Ahhh, but is the miner bot bear really a player?
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
289
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 13:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm listening to the audio interview right now. The interviewer seems to be unable to get beyond the fact that nerfing hisec isn't about "forcing" players out of hisec rather its about rewarding and encouraging people who take a more interactive and creative approach to the game.
If someone wants to take on the challenge of lowsec PI and industry or of mining in nullsec then they should have access to rewards far beyond those available in highsec. It needs to be this way because a player outside of concord will loose more ships, they need a way to replace those ships.
Currently the ISK that you make in low or null mining is not worth the risk, you will loose isk doing it. The only way to balance this is to drastically reduce the mining opportunities in highsec so that the minerals gained from low and null mining will be worth more.
They should do away with all Ice belts in highsec and increase the volume of highsec ore by a factor of 5 or 10. Bears can still mine to their hearts content, but not be enabled to PLEX 6 alt accounts which they will have to adopt botting tactics to use. Perhaps the ISK price fr PLEX will fall if that happens, but this is perhaps where the PLEX experiment finds its resting place. If it is pulling players into AFK / bot gamestyles and removing incentive to go out and interact with others then I'm not sure it is encouraging the emergent MMO sandbox gameplay that Eve advertises.
As James315 says "If its possible to nerf highsec risk into oblivion then its also possible to nerf highsec reward into oblivion."
Slavery is self choosen, only the unclaimed are not free.
...Book of Reclaiming: Hall of the Goat
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